Adrienne Bankert

FRANK BLAKE: First off, I want to start with the book. It's a really interesting title. Kindness is an interesting word itself, but it's interesting to think about it as a superpower and interesting to think about it as a hidden superpower. First, describe the superpower part of it.

ADRIENNE BANKERT: For me, I saw people relegating kindness to this basic politeness and, in business, as you well know, a kindness is remembered and a kindness helps to make some of these deals happen. We focus a lot in business, I think, on the hardships and the industry insider information that you need and the fact that you have to be so ambitious. All of those things are relevant, but what I've seen… because I talk to people in so many different walks of life and different businesses as a journalist… that kindness is one of the tools in the tool belt, so to speak, for so many successful presidents and CEOs and influencers.

I myself made this intentional decision to be kind because of the stress level of the industry I was in and seeing that if you were in a high-stress position, somebody being kind to you could actually give you that rocket fuel to keep going when you did want to hit the wall or when you did have an altercation or when things were just hard. Getting on television with all the deadlines and all of the short turnaround, it can be taxing. So I thought, you know what? My first job in broadcasting is not to get the words out of my mouth. My first job in broadcasting is to bring a sense of calm and to be able to work with people so they feel supported. Because if you respect your crew… I write a whole chapter on that in a book on kindness to your crew… then they're going to have your back. And there's no better feeling than having people have your back.

FRANK BLAKE: What was the first time you realized this? That it's a superpower.

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Well, it was interesting. I didn't know that I would've called it a superpower back when I realized it. I think I just realized that it was something I couldn't go without. It was nonnegotiable. I'm the oldest of seven kids. My mom's one of nine children. So you have a lot of personalities. When you're the oldest, you have this very strong, I'm a leader. Well, I got into the business and I was often the youngest or one of the younger people. I found out very early on I could not use my leadership skills as my strength at work because I was going to get told, "Little girl, sit down." With the bosses and with the people who were veterans in the industry and with people with more experience than me.

So I quickly learned to adapt from being the oldest, which I had a lot of experience in as a young person, to somebody who was the youngest. I actually studied my siblings to get personality traits so that I was more endearing. I wasn't faking it. It was just, let me treat this person like a big sister or a big brother so that they know that I'm not too big for my britches, so to speak. That was one thing that I found out was kind. It wasn't me kissing up. It wasn't me trying to please people. It was literally, what do you need to do to be successful in this communication?

And then the second part was when a coworker snapped at me and I wanted to snap back. It was over something small. It was so small. He was behind the scenes. I was on camera. He got mad at me and I thought, what in the world? I wanted to say something and I didn't, but I found out the next day his mom had died. When I found that out and I didn't respond, I said, I will never ever judge somebody for losing their temper because I don't know what's really going on inside of them. It has nothing to do with me. It was my mentor, Bill, who was like, "You should write a book on kindness." All these years later. Because I had really worked kindness as a muscle in these high-pressure situations. He could see that I had developed something, but I didn't really know the fullness of it until I started writing it down. So I'm grateful that I listened because now we have the book. Because I would've written a biography and I'm too… I haven't lived enough life to do that.

FRANK BLAKE: The other phrase. Hidden. Why hidden? Why do you think it's hidden? How do you observe kindness as being a hidden superpower?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Because people think it's weakness a lot of times. People really don't know. It's like when you're 16 and you say I love you to your girlfriend and you think you know what you're talking about. When you're 16, it's a feeling, but when you're married for 20 years… and this is by my examination. When somebody is married for that long and committed that long or decides to make choices based on love and not their intellect, that's a choosing that requires you to override your feeling.

With kindness, I think there are a lot of nice people, but they're not necessarily kind people. I think they can smile in your face and make you think everything's fine, but inside, they're raging. I think that, a lot of times, our hidden feelings about things can actually be the real motivation. A lot of people in business are motivated by pain. They're motivated by what went wrong, by what they had to go through, and that helps develop their protocol. That helps develop their policy. That's how they deal with people is what they got hurt by in their last deal. It's not about KPI. It's about who kicks my butt. Or whatever.

I think that kindness is hidden because you think you know what being kind means, but radically changing your perception from kindness as a feeling… I feel like being sweet to somebody. Or kindness as a choosing. I'm going to choose who I'm kind to. I'll be kind to people who are like me. I'll be kind to people who think like me. I'll be kind to the needy, but everybody else, I don't even time for. With the hidden part, I wanted people to realize it's actually who you are. It's in your DNA. You can't see your chromosomes, but they're in there. If we saw each other as kind as identity, then our knee-jerk response to hardship, to problems, would actually be more compassionate and that's why I called it hidden.

FRANK BLAKE: That's so interesting. The difference between kindness and niceness and politeness is important. It seems like you might interact with a lot of people who pretend to be kind. Maybe this is just a gross generalization. Your industry, broadly phrased, has a lot of people who pretend, no?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: I think a lot of people in every industry pretend.

FRANK BLAKE: True, true. It gathers a lot more headlines.

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Well, you don't have a camera on you, whereas I think you should always act like you do. I talk about in the book about having a hot mic on all the time. Because I think one of the greatest gifts to my life… It's not that I got to be on TV. It's that being on TV made me extremely aware that people are always watching you. That you're a role model. That you're an example. That your actions matter. They affect other people. I think if every CEO in America did a reality show for three months, they would adjust some things in their life. Not that there's anything that they have to hide or that's wrong in their life. I think that it would heighten their accountability. I think that they would choose different words in meetings.

Because one of the things that I hope with this book is that it helps business people, but it helps all people to realize their value and that the words and the actions they take matter so much even when it seems like they're doing it behind closed doors. Even when it seems like, oh, you know, I'm just talking to these three people. We know that logically here, but being on TV for so many years, it's really hit me here. Because when I was a little kid, my mom would say, "Somebody's always watching you, little girl. Somebody's watching you, Adrienne, even if you can't see them." But it made me aware of the audience. In social media terms, you think about everybody who is invisible, but sees us online. On Instagram. On Facebook. On Tik Tok. Whatever we're using. And Twitter. They're watching our moves. They're watching the words we choose. They're watching to see if they can read between the lines. That gives us a freedom to express ourselves authentically and yet kindness is the filter that keeps us safe. I think it's an insurance policy. I think it's smart business to run everything through a kindness filter and say, "Is what I'm about to post kind?"

FRANK BLAKE: What did you learn from kindness as you wrote your book? I mean, that's a tough topic, I would think, to write-

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Why do call it tough? Can I ask you a question?

FRANK BLAKE: Because just as you said. There are so many aspects to it. There is a blurring of the lines between kindness and politeness and niceness. There's a lot of, I think, potential misunderstanding about what it means.

ADRIENNE BANKERT: I think you're 100% true. Yeah, you're 100% right. What I learned about kindness through writing the book was, during the most difficult times of my life, it was kindness that anchored me. I thought that kindness was for the purpose of making me a better person and being a good human, which it is, but I went through some very stressful times. I write about in the book about the death of my birth father and the stress that it caused on me. When I was being kind, I actually was keeping this rhythm so that I didn't sink. So that I didn't fall into a serious state of affairs. More sorrow or grieving than could help me function in the moment. That was done through scheduling kind acts and kindness that was already instituted in my life. I was having weekly - and I still do have weekly - mentoring calls and I was going there even though I was grieving, but it was this rhythm so that I wouldn't lose step with my job.

I talked about when negotiations fell through in my life. Endeavoring to be this phenomenon and we're going to charge ahead and we're going to know our value and we're going to do big things and seize the day! And then things collapse. What do you do? Being able to be kind and trying to not have a chip on your shoulder with the same people. Being able to be kind when you have conversations with people in the business and not act like "I'm fine" and defending yourself and protecting yourself actually served me rapidly, where results came because I was going to be who I said I was. Again, kindness as an identity versus kindness as an act. I can do all the right things, but it doesn't make me kind. When I determine I'm going to be kind even when my circumstances and life is unkind to me, that is when our true strength is shown. And the fact that kindness had opened doors before, I knew that it would open doors again. I just had to stick it out a little longer.

FRANK BLAKE: So you talk about kindness as creating a resiliency. Is there ever also a point where you walk away from kindness? Where you just say this is too much. I can't be kind. I can't be that person.

ADRIENNE BANKERT: I think that is a great question and I think the answer is no because… One thing I write about in the book is that kindness does not lay down on the floor and act as a doormat. I'm sure, Frank, just knowing a little bit about you, that you've mentored people and sometimes had to say something that someone didn't want to hear and it could be considered unkind. To say things like, you know what? You've got stuff all over your face and if you'd look in the mirror, you'd know. That can come off as unkind. So what my answer to you would be is no. It's never right to walk away in terms of… to say I'm not going to be kind to you. But unfortunately, because kindness is so hidden in a lot of ways for people, it will be perceived as less than kind when, in reality, it's doing that person or that entity a favor.

FRANK BLAKE: That's a really profound answer. You also say and you talk about kindness as an exercise. Think about kindness as you think about a fitness plan. How does that work?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Well, it's funny because I really wasn't… It's not my favorite thing to do, to work out, but it's a great analogy. I started working out again in this pandemic with a virtual personal trainer who is located in Atlanta, so I'm happy about that. When I thought about people who are addicted to working out, I thought, they exercise no matter what. They go out and it's part of their routine and they have the best results. They had the best figure. They had the best meal plans. They had the best abs.

And I thought, we all have a human body, but we decide how much we're going to work it out and get benefit from it, whether we are a cyclist or a boxer or a dancer… then that means I can take kindness as my inherent body of work or power and, just like that athlete, I can work it out. That would require a consistent routine. A lot of people are fans of random acts of kindness, which I think are great, but it's like hitting the lottery. You don't know. It's a surprise. It kind of comes out of nowhere. It's like, oh my gosh, that was so sweet. But when somebody is kind consistently… I've told people who are very socially averse or who have a problem with being sensitive to others, on that spreadsheet, on that daily log, on your calendar, mark it when you will be kind. For anybody, whether you think you're kind or not. It cannot hurt to schedule kindness calls.

I was just talking to somebody yesterday on an Instagram Live and he calls three people everyday. It becomes a muscle. Just because. Just to show appreciation. To show appreciation. To buy somebody virtual coffee because you can't be in the city and take them out right now. Or buy somebody virtual lunch or dinner and just make a deposit into their account or their Venmo or send them a gift card. That actually starts to keep you more aware of other people. And to call a colleague or somebody who you're doing business with without any expectation of return will actually affect you in spades later. You don't realize what you're nurturing. Just that muscle of being situationally aware… I like to say that kindness is using your conscience for other people's benefit. Because a lot of people have a problem with hearing that little voice inside. They don't know when it's right to make a move or to say yes or no to a deal. So the best way is to use your conscience for someone else because then you end up actually becoming more intuitive for your own life. Again, that's the fitness plan of it.

FRANK BLAKE: This sounds so wise and so well thought through. Was this you already had this in mind as you sat down to write or… How do you get to these conclusions?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: I lived it. I have to attribute a lot to my mentor who said to write the book. I remember when I had an issue with a photographer. I told him what happened. I don't remember if he did it right away, but he said… He has a nonprofit. He said, "You're going to be the best photographer I have. You're going to be the best editor I have. And you're going to be the best writer." He said, "You're going to ghost write articles for me." Now, this was when I was on television. Local market 20. A million people watching TV. I didn't need another job. But he said, "You're going to be the best camera editor and the best photographer because I want you to know what your camera crew is going through. I want you to have more empathy." Because of that, I can write a whole chapter on it. Because I practiced that in every city I was in.

I'm telling you. I tell people all the time. My book is not full of a lot of data. It's not full of a lot of analogies based on the dopamine that comes into your system because you're being kind. Because you get that runner's high. I know that's all factual, but I don't go there. I literally tell you how I've lived for the past 15 years. I had to sit down and say, what did I do? I told myself as a kid I didn't want to be one way on camera and one way off. I wanted to be this way all the time so I never had to change faces. It was too much energy. So as soon as I sat down to write the book, I really just had to be like, how would I explain this to somebody who doesn't know me and hasn't lived this life? And so that's why the book came about. But, again, I didn't know what I was going to write about because it wasn't really my idea.

FRANK BLAKE: Your career… hasn't been just one constant advance through life. You've had some interesting trials and setbacks. Does this persist through that?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Yeah, no. If it wasn't for this book and for kindness, what I lived in this book, I don't know that I would be here. I've been able to work in huge markets. Besides New York, I worked in Dallas-Fort Worth for a number of years and I worked in Los Angeles. You think that life is just going to be this progressive stair step. It's so sweet because when I was in my early 20s, I thought that I was chosen for jobs because I was just good. Like of course they're going to choose me. Hello. And then through studying kindness, I realize, no, honey. There are a lot of good people. Somebody was kind to you. Somebody was kind enough to give you a shot.

And so I think that for me, in progressing in my industry, you rely on kindness so much because there's only more people who want your position. Not like they're going to try to take my job, but that position that I'm going for. And so whether I have been on national television or local television or even my work in speaking and working out that… Because getting into the speaking circuit is another challenge altogether in addition to working in corporate world. That has been a trial, but has been amazing to see how rapidly kindness has opened doors in my life. When you've had to do whatever it takes and hustle and take another job if you had to in the meantime while you're working out your real dream job, it's been because people were kind enough to say you know what? I remember how kind you are. I remember that you were not somebody who spoke ill of somebody. I'm going to give you a shot again.

FRANK BLAKE: But there were times when you actually left the news business, right? And were working in restaurants.

ADRIENNE BANKERT: There was one particular time. That was the hardest time of my life. Yeah. That was when a negotiation didn't work out. It was literally like I had nothing. I had no deal. I had no income. To go from six figure income to zero is pretty hard. Pretty humbling. I literally was like if I don't go to work at a restaurant, I'm not going to be able to eat. I remember going into the restaurant and signing all the paperwork and it was the day before my birthday and thinking, this is what it's come to? After all these years of working, after all these years of doing what's right and having a great, stellar rise, this is what it's come to?

And so I went to work and within I want to say five days, somebody came in from the business who recognized me. I sat them at their table and I introduced myself as an industry person. I said, "I just want you to know. I'm sitting you for lunch, but you're going to start seeing me a lot more." I was making this confident presentation, but inside, I'm crying. I said, "You're going to see me a lot more. I just want to let you know." And they said, "Wow, that's really gutsy." I said, "I know. Yes, that's true. It's all I got."

FRANK BLAKE: Just out of curiosity, what kind of restaurant is this?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Like a sit-down. Not white linen tablecloth, but very busy, bustling… Before the pandemic, obviously.

FRANK BLAKE: Very cool.

ADRIENNE BANKERT: The next day or two after that, somebody else walked in who recognized me from the industry. I introduced myself. I just want to let you know. I wanted to say hello. I hope you enjoyed your meal, but you'll be seeing a lot more of me. And they said, "Okay. All right," and kind of looked at me puzzled. Why are you telling me all this? But okay. I'm going to be polite. Then, the very person who the negotiations didn't work with walked in the restaurant. So this is the person who we were going back and forth and, for whatever reason, the deal fell through. Their name pops up on the computer screen and I thought, what am I going to tell them? They're going to ask what are you doing here?

I remember going in the coat closet and giving myself a pep talk so that I knew I didn't look ashamed or fearful that I was working in a restaurant. They walked in. I had come up with the line that I was going to say. Because they were going to say, "What are you doing here?" And I knew exactly what I would say. They said it. Their eyes were as big as saucers. Like, you're seating me? What? And I said, "Well, I'm a host on television and I'm a hostess here. Let me show you to your seat." They looked at me like they saw a ghost. And then out of their mouth, they said, "You know, I've been thinking about you. Are you available? Can I call you in the next week or so?" And I said, "Absolutely. Enjoy your lunch." I walked away and I might've cried a little bit in the coat closet.

I remember saying, just because you're doing this does not determine your destiny and your future. And there are plenty of people who worked in restaurants in light of their career choices. You look at all the celebrated actors and theater performers. They do that. Now, I didn't see it the same way because I'm like, what is a journalist doing working in a restaurant? In fact, I had a guy tell me that very thing when I was trying to get a job and I had nothing. Zero. I went to another place, a burger place, and he says, "I've never had this happen." I said, "What?" He said, "I've never had a journalist come and ask me if they could be a waitress." I said, "Well, it's respectable work." And then I went home and cried. But thankfully, it was a very short-lived job because, after that person came in, I was offered a contract within two weeks.

FRANK BLAKE: By that person?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: By that person.

FRANK BLAKE: That's a great story. That's a terrific story. That is really good. It's such a wonderful topic for a book at this time. For what the country is going through. Do you have some observations about kindness in the world of the pandemic?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: I have seen more kindness… When I was just living here in New York, the 7 o'clock calls. We did it for months and, unfortunately, it's since ended. The whole city would rally at 7 p.m. every night and bang on pots and pans. For months. I mean, I'm talking three and a half, four months. You looked forward to it. These are neighbors that you've never met before, but for some part of time, I actually felt like we are all unified in that moment. Somebody who works with me, she had found out that a few of her friends were furloughed because of the economy. Or not furloughed, laid off. Their positions were eliminated. She called all her mutual friends and said, "What are we going to do about it?" They put their money together and funded their groceries for the next month or two while they worked out how they were going to work again. What their job was going to be. I thought that was one of the sweetest things.

That's actually where I got the idea to do virtual meals and virtual coffee. I actually mentor another group of women, executive women, and I told them… I said, "Every month, we're going to select a person and we're all going to take her to coffee virtually." She can do whatever she wants with the money. We'll all put in $5, $10, $20, whatever you want to put in, and then that person can give it to charity or go get their nails done or take their kids out to get a burger. Whatever they want to do. Because, for me, everybody is in need of something. Everybody is asking for something. Even if they look like everything's okay and they have a nice house and nice cars and have a good job, there's a level of grieving going on. And that universality of kindness, where we're showing it to people no matter what stage of life they're in or what their economic bracket…

The kindness of a sweet note. Getting mail meant so much more during the pandemic. I could give you a whole list of beautiful stories because I post some of those on my Instagram account, @theunbeatablekind, but it's been those everyday opportunities for kindness that will never get air time. I love it because when we're all kind to one another, we're all speaking the same language.

FRANK BLAKE: Well said. Well said. All right. So I have some rapid fire questions for you.

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Oh, okay, Frank. Let's go.

FRANK BLAKE: These are just quick questions. What's the one book you wish everyone would read and why?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Well, it's interesting. There's a man… and I got this as a referral… named Lou Tice, who wrote a book called Smart Talk. It's about speaking the right words about your situation and envisioning your situation so that when you walk in, you've already seen it. I think there's a lack of vision in this world today. It's really helped me to use the power of my imagination to perceive how things can be. The way that I want them. So, Smart Talk by Lou Tice.

FRANK BLAKE: Perfect. What's the craziest good turn someone has done for you?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: I would say the craziest good turn would probably be the one I talk about in the book. When this woman who had known me my whole career called up the general manager of the LA station and said, "You need to work with ADRIENNE BANKERT. I've never heard her say a bad thing about anybody." And the woman hired me on the spot. Not because of my resume. In fact, she told me, "Your resume doesn't have enough on it, but I need more people who are kind and nice in this business." So I would say that's the craziest good turn because it literally was like, you're here.

FRANK BLAKE: If there's one person… not a well-known person, but one person that you'd like their name known in the context of kindness, who would that be?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: There's so many. I would say a woman named Therese Hardesty, but her sister Pam Walton is also there. I mean, they have been so kind and helped me when I've been going through stressful things, but also, they've helped so many other people. And they have a ton of kids. They've done so much for people while having a lot going on themselves. Both of them volunteer-

FRANK BLAKE: That's always impressive, right?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Yeah. I think what they've taught me is how you can be a mom, you can be a wife, you can be a volunteer, and you can still make the time to be extremely aware of a stranger or a friend. Just growing that capacity of heart is massive and has given me an example so that when I do expand my family, grow my family, grow my footprint on this earth, that I will be more aware because of their example. So that's their kindness. It's affected me and so many others.

FRANK BLAKE: Related question. Who is someone whose behavior you say, I want to model that person's behavior?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Oh, well that would be my mentor. 100%. He wrote the foreword of the book. Bill Krause. I've never meant anybody so generous and giving. I mean, I call him a generosity coach as much as a life coach because-

FRANK BLAKE: What a great description.

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Yeah, generosity coach. Because I think there's an art to being generous and philanthropic. Giving your life is ultimately what he's taught me and not letting other people or other things determine his mood and his life. Again, I think I touched on it earlier, but so many people are motivated by pain and that's how they make decisions for the rest of their life. I've seen that he's motivated by giving. That's what I want to be. I want to be motivated by-

FRANK BLAKE: How did you connect with him? What's the relationship?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: He had a conference and my former mentor, who I'd known since I was a teenager. I worked in her hair salon. She said, "I want you to come to this conference." I was like, "No, I'm good. I don't want to go." She's like, "No, you have to come. You have to go. This guy is great." And so she invited me and I came. I said, "Who is this guy?" I've never seen somebody who speaks like him. I want what he's talking about. And so we met up and I asked him to coach me and, now, it's been 15 years. He's inspired the book because he said, "You should write a book on kindness." When you find somebody who's real and you find somebody who legitimately cares… Good people are… I don't want to say they're hard to come by, but sometimes they're hidden. So when you find a real thing, you hold on.

FRANK BLAKE: That is great. That is just brilliant. This has been so fascinating. Talking with you. One final question. What's the kind of feedback you've gotten from your book or your speeches? Can you give some examples of that that have been meaningful to you and you say, gosh. This is achieving what I hoped it would achieve.

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Like I said, in business, I want to be the same person on camera as off. So even when I'm in my apartment and something just comes to me, I feel like there is somebody going through something or I'm going through something that I'm sure other people are going through, too, then I'll share a message online. When I talk about kindness, people have really resonated with it because they want to see proof that they can be kind and strong. I'll have people tell me that they've been told I've been too nice or I'm too nice for this industry and then they read my book and they say, "Thank you for showing me that it's not that I'm too nice. It's I am powerful." It's a choreography. It's a dance.

I got a message from a gentleman on LinkedIn. One of the sweetest notes. He said, I'm 47 and I haven't done all the things that I planned on doing by 47. But when I read your book, I realized that I have needed to return to the kind person that I was in my 20s. Now, my 20 year old dreams are revived again. Thank you for bringing me back to center. The world is crazy and I needed to remember the kindness. And that's really what I wanted from this book because I saw that in life… and it starts younger and younger… disappointments can make us jaded and make us lose hope. When we lose hope, we start to shrink inside. We start to become unkind.

There was another woman who messaged me who saw a video that I was using talking about some of the same tenets from the book. She said, I was really sad and crying. I didn't want to commit suicide, but I just didn't want to be here. And I thought, what a strong, honest statement that I'm sure a lot of people understand. When you're lonely or when things are hard and you don't know how to process your feelings. She said, I saw your video and I stopped crying and you helped me to listen and I want to thank you for the video. I've had people message me and say how it gives them a new perspective on relationships. It gives them a new perspective on how we treat each other. It gives them a new perspective on how much they value each other. I tell people that the more you value yourself, the more vision you have. If you don't have vision, you just don't know how important and how worthy you are. It doesn't make you bad, but my hope was that in telling people that kind was their identity, they would finally have an anchor to their soul and it looks as though that people are actually… They're reading. They're listening. They're understanding at a new level.

FRANK BLAKE: That's just awesome. And we will… By the way, we're going to make sure to buy some of your books to give to our listeners.

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Oh my gosh. That would be so awesome. Thank you!

FRANK BLAKE: We absolutely will. In addition to your book, where should people go to find out more about you?

ADRIENNE BANKERT: They can go to adriennebankert.com. My website. There is a different list of courses. We have an e-course for the book that is a totally different set of material than what you read in Your Hidden Superpower. I personally went through every single bit of information to make sure that it wasn't just feel-good stuff. Even though we love feeling good. We like crazy feel good. But I wanted something that would actually give people more empowerment and more tools to living their life at the level that they wanted to. That's on the Harper Collins leadership site, but you can find it on adriennebankert.com or you can go to Your Hidden Superpower for a whole list of materials and good stuff. And then on my Instagram, @theunbeatablekind. On Facebook and Instagram. You can also go to @abontv on TV because I have a lot of videos and content there. So, yeah. More speaking, more classes, more spreading of kindness is coming. I'm already writing another book, so I'm excited to give the world more.

FRANK BLAKE: Wow. Fantastic. Well, Adrienne, thank you so much. Thank you for sharing this time with us and our listeners. I'm sure everybody… This has just been a phenomenal conversation.

ADRIENNE BANKERT: Thank you, Frank. You're a great conversationalist and thank you for your grace and your kindness and everybody else involved.

FRANK BLAKE: Thank you, Adrienne.